Success Stories

Professor Lissa Griffin has been a faculty member at the Elisabeth Haub School of Law at Pace University for 37 years and remains a fixture at the School. In 1985, Professor Griffin started working at what was then called “Pace Law” and today, she remains fully committed to the law school community. She teaches Professional Responsibility, Criminal Procedure – Adjudication, Comparative Criminal Procedure, and Evidence and is recognized for her scholarship in criminal procedure and comparative criminal procedure. She is also a visiting professor at Birmingham City University School of Law in Birmingham, UK.  Learn more about Professor Griffin’s background, travels, scholarly work and more in the Q&A below. 

Q: What is your recent work in and out of academia?   

A: Last year I was able to travel to Malaga, Spain as a Fulbright Scholar. I co-taught a course with two Spanish law professors called Fundamental Rights in the Criminal Process, which is much like our criminal procedure courses in the United States. I also participated in three conferences and presented weekly workshops to UMA’s PhD students. Teaching in a different country helped me reflect on my US classroom and was unbelievably rewarding. In addition, having been able to confer with Spanish criminal procedure scholars, practitioners, and prosecutors allowed me to see a completely new legal system unlike ours here in the United States.  

Q: Can you tell me more about your Fulbright Scholar experience?  

A: When I originally applied to go to Spain, the coronavirus was at its peak and Spain was in particularly bad trouble. I knew Spain was one of the worst places to travel at the time, but I still took the risk and it paid off.  Having worked and studied in the US and UK, which are both common law systems, I wanted to be exposed to a civil law system. In addition to teaching, while I was in Malaga I spoke at conferences and participated in presentations to PhD students and graduate students of all disciplines. I did quite a bit of work with the four other US Fulbright Scholars there, who came from different parts of the US and were in different disciplines and we were good collaborators and became good friends. The Spanish culture was an excellent and welcome contrast to the current situation in the United States:  the sense of social cohesion and community in Spain is much different from the United States, whether that be professional, academic, or even personal. The experience of living within the Spanish culture was wonderful. 

Q: Did you take anything away from your experience abroad? 

A: Yes, I’ve taught several times in the United Kingdom and those experiences and the time spent in Spain are transformative. In my teaching, I feel being exposed to different learning communities with different populations, expectations and relationships makes you more sensitive to your students. Understanding different criminal processes, both common law and civil law deepens your understanding and broadens your perspective. I’ve learned so much about criminal procedure and US criminal procedure first from being in the United Kingdom and then in Spain. Spain was particularly interesting to me because it is a civil law country with a very different domestic process and is also subject to European Union law and the European Court of Human Rights. All three sources of law contribute to the choices they make in structuring and administering their criminal process.

Q: What was it like to participate in the International Criminal Judicial Cooperation Conferences?  

A: In both, I was the only speaker who spoke in English and discussed US law. It was an honor to work with the other academics on the panels.  In one of the conferences, I presented on the US jury and people were literally horrified at the power our juries enjoy. I am now writing a piece for a larger book comparing the US and Spanish jury systems. 

Q: What drew you into the world of criminal law?  

A: Well that goes far back but the answer to that is that I think I’ve always been curious about outsiders. As a young child, cowboys fascinated me; in college, I veered toward the sociology of deviance.  And like others who were children of the 1960s, the faceoff between the individual and the state has always been important to me and that happens directly in the criminal process.

Q: Can you talk more about what you did before coming to Pace?  

A: I started working for a private criminal defense lawyer and then moved to The Legal Aid Society’s criminal appeals office. Then I moved to a firm that worked specifically in civil litigation. At the time, the harm caused by asbestos had begun to lead to mass tort litigation, and my firm represented insurers who were litigating between and among the insurance companies to see who was responsible for paying the injured parties. I also handled appeals in medical malpractice cases on behalf of hospitals and doctors.

Q: How did teaching at Pace come across your radar? 

A: Someone I worked with had graduated in the first graduating class at Pace Law School and invited me to an alumni event to meet the then-dean, Janet Johnson. It turned out that Pace was looking for writing instructors and I started as a writing instructor in 1985. Shortly thereafter Pace started its clinical program and I supervised the Appellate Litigation. My students briefed and argued cases in the Appellate Division, First Department, in Manhattan, and in the New York Court of Appeals. As the School’s needs changed, I began teaching simulation and doctrinal classes. And with Professor David Dorfman, I created the Law School’s course on Interviewing, Counseling, and Negotiating. I guess one could say I’ve been a utility player. No matter what you are teaching, every course and every class is a new challenge.

Q: Tell me about the Pace Law London Program.  

A: I went abroad to London with Pace three times: once in 1999, again 2002, and finally in 2012 with Professor McDonnell. My presence in England coincided with the opening of the first innocence commission in the world, the Criminal Case Review Commission, and I wrote several law review articles about it.  I also began my comparative criminal procedure work, which has been my area of specialty for twenty-three years. When I was there in 2012, I developed a relationship with Birmingham City University School of Law, where I taught in 2019 and where I am currently a Visiting Professor. Teaching abroad really allowed me to absorb and reflect on so many levels, whether teaching, learning, and personally. And of course, having spent so much time in London when they were growing up, our children feel like it is a second home and know it as well as they know New York. Maybe better. 

Q: Would you recommend a study abroad experience to law students? 

A: Always! It truly is a rich experience and will give you a different perspective on your life, your society, your values, and your profession. It may not change any of those things, but it will help you understand who you are and how you got there and what you want to do in the future. 

Q: What advice do you have for students interested in criminal law? 

A: Read the news!  There is so much going on every day in criminal cases. Ask yourself why what happened happened and if it should have happened in a fair and effective criminal process.  Go abroad:  see how other societies administer their criminal law so you realize there are many legitimate systems that are very different from ours. Besides that, participate in internships to build up your resume and to find out what really the field is all about. I also recommend that you pursue becoming a research assistant for a professor. There are so many great opportunities being a research assistant can bring forward such as a big network, jobs, publishing opportunities, and closer connections with faculty.

Q: What are you looking forward to most this school year? 

A: I always look forward to seeing the light bulbs go on in my students minds as we finish a course because in the end it DOES all come together. I am also looking forward to teaching a five-day course in Madrid at Comillas Law School, where four of our students are actually studying this semester, after our classes end in December. I am also teaching a Lawyering and Science skills workshop during January intersession that I haven’t taught since pre-COVID. The intersection between law and science is absolutely fascinating and helping students understand how to use science as lawyers is fun.

Q: What is your favorite part of Haub Law? 

A: Community. I have to say there has always been a supportive and close community not only for students, but for faculty as well. People care about each other and care about having a community that reflects those values, including devotion to the students and respect to one another. It truly does trickle down from the top.

Q: What are your non-academic Interests? 

A:  I love to travel. I love my dogs. I exercise almost every day, less because I like it than because it keeps me healthy.  I exercise for two episodes of whatever series I’m currently watching, and so I’ve watched a lot of series   Lastly, I would say I am utterly devoted to my friendships. I have had friends for longer than 50 years; I have friends from college, and friends I made as an adult. Over time, I have come to understand how really important these friendships are.  

Photograph by dave@verticalbird.com

Learn more about Professor Griffin.

Professor, Civil Rights Attorney, Precedent Setter, Social Justice Advocate. Randolph McLaughlin has been a stalwart on the Elisabeth Haub School of Law at Pace University faculty since 1988, teaching civil procedure, torts, and labor law. He also co-chairs the Civil Rights Practice Group of Manhattan’s Newman Ferrara LLP, along with his wife Debra Cohen, an adjunct faculty member at the Law School and Haub Law graduate. Prior to all this, McLaughlin made a name for himself as a civil rights activist and at­torney, pioneering new legal strategies to address incidents of racism, voting rights litigation, and more. Now, some of the very cases and individuals that he represented are at the forefront of a feature film and forthcoming documentary. We sat down with Professor McLaughlin to discuss the influential impact he has had throughout his career and what the future may hold for civil rights attorneys.

A landmark case you handled, which set a legal precedent for today’s court battles on racial violence, is the subject of a forthcoming documentary. The film highlights a racist attack that took place in the home state of the Ku Klux Klan, and showcases the role your strategy has played in decades of civil court victories. After Klansmen shot and injured five Black women in 1980 Chattanooga, Tennessee, the women were able to take the KKK to federal court using the long-forgotten Enforcement Act of 1871. Also known as the Ku Klux Klan Act, it was enacted to curb KKK violence after the Civil War. The documentary, some of which was filmed at Haub Law, is scheduled for release this year. Can you tell us about how you developed your strategy in this case?

Four African-American women were out on a Saturday night in 1980 in Chattanooga, Tennessee, when three Klansmen shot at them. More than 100 shotgun pellets were found in one woman’s legs. Two of the Klansmen were acquitted of all charges. One of them, who basically confessed, was convicted of simple as­sault, served nine months of a sentence and got out on good behavior. At the time I was at the Center for Constitutional Rights, which was part of the National Anti-Klan Network, so we sued the Klansmen.

I was an African-American history major, and I remembered reading about Klan violence and Reconstruction, so we looked back at those periods and found this 1871 law, called the Ku Klux Klan Act, which was passed to give a federal cause of action to victims of Klan violence. We dusted it off and waited for the right opportunity, and sure enough we didn't have to wait too long. We filed a suit as both a class action for all the Black residents of Chattanooga, and as a damages action for the five women. We tried the case and won—got over half a million dollars and a judgment. It was the first case using that statute to get a money judgment against the Klan.

I don't think winning a case like that is much of a long shot anymore. Law tends to reflect society. Judges aren't like some guru living on top of a moun­tain somewhere, they're reading the same stories, they walk the same streets, they watch the same TV shows we watch. And I think with the Black Lives Matter efforts across the country after the death of George Floyd, and then top that off with the January 6 attempted coup at the Capitol, judges have to real­ize if they don't step in, then this can happen again.

After the 2020 election, the NAACP used the Act in a lawsuit against former President Donald Trump and the Republican National Committee for system­atically trying to disenfranchise Black voters. Also, Representative Bennie Thompson, a Democrat from Mississippi, has more recently sued Trump, his former attorney Rudy Giuliani, and two far-right militia groups under the law, alleging they conspired to prevent law­makers from certifying President Joe Biden's victory by inciting and participating in the January 6 insurrection.

A feature film that premiered nationwide last September, The Killing of Kenneth Chamberlain, is based on the true story of a case that you and your wife, Professor Debra Cohen, have worked on for more than 10 years. In 2011, Kenneth Chamberlain, an elderly African American veteran with bipolar disorder, was killed by police officers sent to check on him after his medical alert device was mistakenly activated. The film recounts the police’s forceful response to this non-threatening situation and provides a view of the reform needed in policing tactics and our justice system. Where does that case stand now?

 This film provides a great opportunity not only to bring the case into national focus, but to highlight how police respond to calls, how they police in African-American communities, and how they are trained for situations involving people in a mental health crisis. What was done was a text book case of what not to do if their intention was to provide assistance.

When the police arrived, Mr. Chamberlain was sleeping in his bed, and he made more than 60 at­tempts to explain that he didn’t call for help, did not need help and didn’t want to open his door. When we heard the audio recording, we were shocked at the inhumanity demonstrated by law enforcement.

Debra and I were asked to join the case by col­leagues and fellow Haub Law alumni Mayo Bartlett and Wali Muhammad in 2012. A $21 million civil rights lawsuit was filed in federal court against the City of White Plains and several police officers. The legal fight for justice has spanned over the past 10 years, with a case currently still pending in federal district court in White Plains. Less than one year into legal proceed­ings, a grand jury declined to vote for an indictment, causing an uproar in the community and among social justice advocates. Another letdown came in 2017, when the district court dismissed most of the claims contained in the lawsuit and excused several of the original defendants, including police officers.

Following four-years of litigation, including a trial, in 2020, the Second Circuit US Court of Appeals re­stored claims of unlawful entry and excessive force. We are now preparing for trial and hope that with the need for police reform gaining traction across the country, justice for Chamberlain can finally be achieved.

Twenty-six years ago, you and your wife Debra handled the case of Charles Campbell, who was killed by an off duty New York City police officer at a deli in Dobbs Ferry, New York. The officer was convicted of second-degree murder in a criminal trial. You and Debra successfully tried the subsequent civil case before US District Judge Constance Baker Motley, a civil rights icon, with the help of Pace students. How do you view working with students in such cases?

I went into teaching in order to expose students to the value and rewards of civil rights practice. While I am a full-time law professor, I also maintain a selec­tive civil rights caseload. Whenever possible I involve students in that work. My students have served as active members of a trial team, participating in the writing of briefs and sitting in the courtroom with the other attorneys. I involve the students in all aspects of the case and share with them my strategies as we pursue justice for our clients.

 How did you get your start in civil rights law?

Racism didn’t directly affect me that much growing up in New York City, but I was fascinated by the law. By age 10, I was reading law books. William Kunstler was a hero to me. In high school, the Chicago Seven trial was all over the news. It was the binding and gagging of Black Panther Bobby Seale in the court­room that made me say, this is wrong, I’ve got to get involved.

During my second year at Harvard Law School, legendary defense attorney William Kunstler came to speak. He’s saying things like, “I need black lawyers to get involved in this kind of work with us because we can’t do it on our own.” He’s up there on the stage with Black Panthers and Native American activists, and there I am. I was a really shy kid. But after the lecture I worked my way up and said, “I’ve followed your career since I was a kid and I want to do what you do.”

He looked at me and said, “Here’s my card. Look me up when you get back to New York.” And I did.

How did you build a civil rights law practice?

Lucas A. Ferrara, the co-founder of Newman Ferrara in Manhattan, had been practicing real estate law for more than 25 years, he wanted to expand the work of the firm into the civil rights field.

The firm asked Debra and me to co-chair the civil rights practice group at the firm. When I brought up the controversial nature of some of their cases, they said, “We love controversy. Bring it on.”

It’s been a happy marriage. Lucas and Jon Newman have both assisted us in our civil rights cas­es, and their insight has been invaluable. Ultimately, if you can create a workable business model, then the good work can expand. There’s more than enough injustice to go around.

For victims, the legal process itself can be a kind of therapy. When I see a client who first comes to us really almost in post-traumatic stress, they can’t get through a conversation without crying. Within a few months, they’re giving it back to us, saying, “Well, what about this?” and “I want to do this.” They are starting to feel empowered and engaged, and the hopelessness is dissipated. Whether we win or lose the case, they feel at least a small amount of closure.

 How did you begin practicing law with your wife?

Debra was 39, a former salesperson and marketer, when she applied to Haub Law in 1995. She was inter­ested in civil rights law, and the school’s catalog listed me as a social justice lawyer. She signed up for my class. A few weeks into the class, I announced I had a new civil rights case and needed interns, and Debra sent me her résumé.

At the end of our interview, she stopped at the door and asked me if I had heard about a case involving the shooting of an African-American man, Charles Campbell, in a deli parking lot in Dobbs Ferry. By that time the family of the victim had already contacted me about representation. She said that she lived there and every weekend she joined family and friends of the man who was shot to demonstrate at the deli and to keep visibility on the case and pressure the district attorney to prosecute the police officer who shot him. After she graduated, I hired her, and that’s how it began. We worked together on the Campbell case. In 2001, we were married, and we hung a shingle in the Bronx not long after.

What do you see as some of the challenges facing civil rights lawyers today?

Frankly, the Supreme Court. With the six conservative judges in the majority we could face an onslaught of reversals in the civil and constitutional rights fields. Most notably, the landmark decision in Roe v. Wade is under attack and could be reversed this year. With the respect to voting rights, the Supreme Court in Shelby County v. Holder, gutted Section 5 (preclearance provision) of the Voting Rights Act of 1965, and now the Court is primed to eliminate Section 2 of that Act that has been critical in securing minority representation at all levels of gov­ernment. In the police reform area, the Supreme Court seems reluctant to reverse decisions such as Graham v. Connor that set a very high burden on plaintiffs in po­lice misconduct cases. So the future is not bright in the Supreme Court—for now. But that does not mean that there is nothing for us to do today. The struggle con­tinues. The forces of justice have been fighting in this country since 1619 to achieve equal rights and justice. At the same time, the opponents of freedom are just as active now as they have been since the founding of this country. The question for each of us, as lawyers, is where do you stand on the barricades—with the people or the enemies of the people.

Learn more about Professor McLaughlin.

Catherine Gonzalez (née Peña ) ‘15 began navigating the immigration system from an early age as an immigrant child. Born in San Jose de las Matas, a small town in the Dominican Republic, Catherine remained there until she was nine. Catherine recalls, “It was all I knew, and once I immigrated I was separated from my mother and from the only family I knew. I found myself in a big, strange world in New York City, with a new and strange language to match. Despite those struggles, immigrating offered me invaluable opportunities. This early exposure to immigration introduced me to the bureaucracies of the American immigration system—from consulates to individual immigration officers. As I pursued higher education, I decided I wanted to become a lawyer because I wanted to help the people of my community. I am proud to say I am now the first and only lawyer in my family.”  

Once she was in college, Catherine pursued internships with lawyers and sought to learn all she could to forge a path for herself in the law. “I gravitated towards immigrant rights issues. I volunteered at an Immigrant Rights Law Clinic in college and worked with a criminal defense attorney who worked as assigned counsel on state and federal cases.” Once she was at Haub Law, Catherine volunteered anywhere she could to gain additional experience with immigration law and in trial advocacy, having several impactful experiences along the way. “One of the most impactful professors I had the privilege of meeting and working with at Pace was Professor Louis Fasulo. Professor Fasulo and The Advocacy Program – its academic curriculum as well as the moot court and mock trial competitions – were integral to helping me hone the skills I now use daily as a public defender. I am eternally grateful to Loretta Musial, Professor Fasulo, and The Advocacy Program at Pace for teaching, guiding, and supporting me. It is in large part thanks to all of them that I wake up every day to do work I love and am passionate about,” noted Catherine.

After she graduated from Haub Law, Catherine began her legal career in the Criminal Defense Practice at Brooklyn Defender Services (BDS), representing clients against criminal charges. It was there she found herself gravitating towards cases that resonated with her, often those that involved immigration-related issues. Today, Catherine is a Supervising Immigration Attorney & Policy Counsel in the Criminal Defense Practice at Brooklyn Defender Services. “I witnessed how the criminal legal system funnels people into the immigration deportation system, which led me to join BDS’s Padilla Team where I advise clients and attorneys about the immigration consequences of criminal and family court cases and represent non-citizens fighting to remain in the US.”

Recently, Haub Law’s Trial Advocacy Program at the 2022 Gavel Gala honored Catherine with the Rising Star Award. “I feel so honored to have been selected to receive the Rising Star Award. When I was a little girl, newly arrived in the United States, I began to dream of becoming a lawyer. Based on what I saw on television, I imagined myself standing in a courtroom, vehemently defending the rights of people during some of the most challenging times in their lives. Years later, working at Brooklyn Defender Services I feel incredibly privileged. There, as a public defender, I have been able to work towards accomplishing this dream of being an advocate for the people in my community. I really wake up every day with that same goal I envisioned years ago – unapologetically committed to ensuring that people's most basic rights are protected. Receiving the Rising Star Award serves as an affirmation for all of the hard work and sacrifices that were integral to achieving my goals and dreams.”

The child of immigrants from Peru, Samantha Lopez’s parents are her inspiration for pursuing a degree in law. Now that she is at Pace, Samantha appreciates the close-knit community and guidance of her professors. “Professor Merton has been extremely helpful and has provided me with a lot of guidance. She is definitely an inspiration and role model. I would love to eventually participate as a student attorney in the Immigration Justice Clinic.”

With a passion for immigration law, Samantha’s experience as a Summer Legal Intern with Sanctuary for Families as part of their Immigration Intervention Project was exactly the type of summer experience she hoped for when she began her law school journey. “I was able to gain a better understanding of the legal immigration process and work directly with clients as I wrote an asylum brief, drafted a client’s affidavit, and filed N-600 forms. Meeting with the clients and being able to talk with them (mostly in Spanish) was an amazing experience that really cemented that I am on the right path.”

Now, a 2L at Haub Law, Samantha is secretary of the Latin American Law Student Association and the Pace Immigration Law Society. “I wanted to join LALSA because I believe when going through something difficult, such as law school, one needs a strong support system to help you through it. Knowing that members of LALSA typically come from similar backgrounds and have had similar experiences as I have had has made going through law school as a first generation law student a far better experience. I am also glad to have joined an organization with such an extensive alumni network that provides support.”